Attorney Michael de Broglio on: South Africa, Law, Politics, Attorneys, Sport, Photography, Technology, Gadgets, Media, Crime, Road Accidents Fund,
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A nanny state is a government whose policies are over-protective or interferes with people’s personal choice. I think that description fits our labour laws and in particular our CCMA laws perfectly. The reason I am writing about this today though is not to do with our labour laws – which one day, sooner or later South Africa will have to change if it wants to try and get itself out of the economic hole in which it is in. I would say though in that regard that so many people who say that they do not support the ANC or anything that it stands for, are very happy to run whining off to the CCMA like good socialists when it suits them, and then criticise the ANC and the government the rest of the time – while voting DA - when they don’t want to embrace their socialistic policies. Rather hypocritical.
In any event, not being able to buy alcohol or cigarettes during a lockdown must be a perfect example of a nanny state. I am well aware that there are many people that will drink alcohol and assault or abuse people or their family at this stage, but should we really be over-policing the entire nation to that extent? I am not a fan of smoking, in particular the fact that we have to pay for many smokers’ hospitalisation in their later years when they die slowly of cancer, but are there no rights in South Africa to either choose to drink alcohol or smoke a cigarette? But you can buy sweets and have the drug called sugar? I think what we are seeing at the moment is the very definition of a nanny state and while many people love to be nannied, when it is time to have a fight with their employer and have a big helping hand to look after them I guess they are now seeing the other side of the story. Those overbearing nanny tendencies also lead to government telling you that you cannot d rink or smoke cigarettes during a lockdown.
Posted by Michael de Broglio on Monday 20-Apr-20
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Comments
Ziyanda said:
on Monday 11-May-20 03:52 PM
I an not sure if banning cigarettes and alcohol was a good move because people are still smoking and drinking their alcohol. They should just let the smokers smoke and those who drink alcohol drink their alcohol.
cornelie said:
on Monday 11-May-20 10:09 AM
I have seen over this lockdown how people are struggling without smoking, I’m not a smoker. I think at a stage a person can stop and safe a lot.
Tersia said:
on Monday 11-May-20 08:47 AM
To refuse the selling of alcohol and cigarettes definitely does not stop the people to get hold of any of it. That is what is so funny to me, the Government makes the most money out of us through the sin tax of selling those products and now they want to ban all of it. They are losing billions of Rands just by doing that - how does that make any sense! And then at the same time releasing fugitives from jail - like that is not dangerous to us!?
Joyce said:
on Friday 08-May-20 11:07 AM
I agree that government policies are over protective. I salute the respect and understanding people of SA shown this time, there have not been public negative behavior against the ban of cigarette and alcohol seen so far from stage 5 to stage 4 of the lockdown
Zindy said:
on Friday 08-May-20 08:33 AM
I think its about personal choice, yes i agree with many of the concerns involved however government must also understand that this has resulted in more criminals in the country. People now buying illegally. If people are desperate for something they will get what they want. I have seen numerous posts about bottle stores ect been broken in to. Its a problem.
Bianca Taljaard said:
on Friday 08-May-20 08:23 AM
The ban of cigarettes is very obvious, I really think it is reticules, why not take off all the gas cooldrink, the sweets and the chips, let people start there to become healthy.
brumilde said:
on Wednesday 06-May-20 03:19 PM
I think that we have a nanny state, i think after the apartheid and the new ground laws, the plot was there but was lost along the way. Protect the one at the cost of the many wouldn't you think...
Bianca Niemann said:
on Tuesday 05-May-20 04:43 PM
As a smoker, the ban on cigarettes is obviously frustrating. I understand that smoking is bad for your health, but the excuse that people share cigarettes etc. as a reason to ban it, is total nonsense. People still share food or drinks and now buy an excessive amount of unhealthy snacks during lockdown to cope with not being able to smoke. So proud of our democracy when in actual fact we are completely being stripped of our freedom.
Tamaryn said:
on Thursday 30-Apr-20 02:27 PM
SA prides itself on its democracy and freedoms yet when faced with a pandemic, suddenly the country becomes a nanny state. Obesity and diabetes are major health concerns in SA and for which many people are hospitalised, yet sweets and sugar filled foods can still be purchased. It's arbitrary to say the least. I don't see the rationale behind most of their restrictions which makes it all the more frustrating. For every argument they levy in support of their restrictions, there is a plausible counter argument which is outright ignored. Had the country's health care system been where it should have been to begin with, the need to restrict to such a degree would not be necessary.
Roxanne said:
on Tuesday 28-Apr-20 04:02 AM
I don't understand the ban on cigarettes as most people did(myself included) was when we found out about the lock down and ban on cigarettes everyone bought as much as they can.
Helen said:
on Saturday 25-Apr-20 02:41 PM
What's happening at the moment is that ministers and the national executive would come up with legislation and in quite a number of instances, legislation is not consulted with the public in the policy and the drafting phase.
Public should be allowed the freedom to choose! But at this moment there is not so much to choose from.....
Kathryn said:
on Friday 24-Apr-20 02:12 PM
Withdrawals aside, I think that the prohibition of alcohol has been effective in curbing deviant behaviour of South Africans. The banning of cigarettes makes sense as the virus is one of a respiratory nature. However, it seems that the progression to a level 4 lockdown has led to the allowance of purchasing cigarettes while the ban on alcohol remains...
Dasanya said:
on Friday 24-Apr-20 09:02 AM
The ban of alcohol and cigarettes, although frustrating to many, makes sense during this time. This may have the effect of people being forced to take better care of their health. South Africa fits the profile of a nanny state because to smoke or consume alcohol is ultimately one's own personal choice but the Government does not have the right to infringe on such.
Ashleigh said:
on Friday 24-Apr-20 07:15 AM
I read that the letter that the alcohol industry sent the President and what the President's response was to them. I must say that the response was great and understand the ban of alcohol. Cigarettes on the other hand is not something of the same as alcohol but is not a good habit to have and can create underlying disease for the virus but taking both away could lead to issues. My concern is more on the hungry people.
melissa said:
on Thursday 23-Apr-20 07:52 AM
Banning alcohol is a good thing, especially during the lockdown, because if people drink then they want to go out to friends or whatsoever, but banning cigarettes doesn't make sense. People will somehow get hold of these things
Alexis said:
on Wednesday 22-Apr-20 03:07 PM
I agree totally with the fact that it is a nanny state of affairs. The ban on alcohol and smokes is a conscience one with very good intentions. It is definitely showing the world how dependent people are on these drugs.
Henrietta said:
on Wednesday 22-Apr-20 09:56 AM
I do feel we are a nanny state, the rights have been taking out of our hands and we are now forced to live with the rules made by Government. I often wonder if the President had been a drinker or smoker if the banning of these sin product would have happened. There are pros and cons in the banning of cigarettes and alcohol. With alcohol it has lessen the violence and stupid accidents only drunks can do, bar fights stabbing etc. but on the other hand, you can buy it illegally. We've heard of a guy who paid R 800 a bottle whiskey, people are becoming desperate and doesn't car about the financial impact they doing on them self. There is a huge difference between quiting by your terms and being forced to quit. People not ready to give up will go high and low to get it regardless of the rules
Bronwyn said:
on Tuesday 21-Apr-20 04:03 PM
I Agree with South Africa Being a Nanny State, I do agree with the ban of Alcohol and Cigarettes but I have seen how some people has been arrested, because they going the illegal route of buying these goods at an alarming price.
Chante said:
on Tuesday 21-Apr-20 03:05 PM
I understand the ban on cigarettes and alcohol and there have been given many different reasons for this. Even though it seems that more and more people are becoming more desperate to purchase cigarettes and alcohol, if people want it they'll get it one way or another. This is however the perfect time to try and quit bad habits.
Claudia B said:
on Tuesday 21-Apr-20 01:57 PM
I do think it's a good thing that cigarettes and alcohol is not allowed in the lockdown. Some will stop smoking and some not. Nanny state does fit perfectly.
Daniella said:
on Tuesday 21-Apr-20 01:25 PM
Nanny state fits quite well- I completely understand the ban on both however I don't really see the point in the banned of cigarettes just because if people want it they will get it - and the buying and selling of cigarettes is great revenue considering the sin tax.
Dune said:
on Tuesday 21-Apr-20 01:04 PM
I am in agreement with the alcohol and cigarette ban during the lockdown period. It all comes down to self discipline, I have actually heard of a few people who ran out of cigarettes during the first week and has subsequently quit as a result,
Sinead said:
on Tuesday 21-Apr-20 12:20 PM
Although, it is causing damage to the economy I do still kind of agree with the ban, only because this virus is respiratory. I am not a fan of cigarettes in any event. Those getting cigarettes illegally - it's human nature to want things more when you can't have them!
Victoria said:
on Tuesday 21-Apr-20 11:41 AM
Nanny State does fit perfectly. I think it is good that you are not allowed to buy certain things as it is not an essential item, which also makes people not waste money on things that are not essential or not needed right now.
Michelle D said:
on Tuesday 21-Apr-20 11:24 AM
I am very much in support of the alcohol ban at the moment! I think that alcohol is detrimental in our current circumstances in many ways. It fuels domestic violence as well as rebellious behavior and also makes a large portion of people do very stupid things and end up taking up valuable space in our ERs. Cigarettes on the other hand I don't see much of a point to and it's losing our government extensive revenue by prohibiting same.
Prishani said:
on Tuesday 21-Apr-20 11:16 AM
I think many people are very against the fact that no alcohol is being sold as well as cigarettes. It doesn't really have a huge impact on me but the scary part is that many people are going above and beyond to obtain these items illegally which is surely not the best option at this time.
Kayla said:
on Tuesday 21-Apr-20 10:08 AM
I can understand where the government is coming from in terms of alcohol bans, due to home abuse and once under the influence one tends to make stupid decisions. However, them banning alcohol and cigarettes is just forcing citizens who are desperate to go to the "illegal way" of acquiring these substances. The alcohol ban still has not stopped South Africans, as now they are brewing it from home. Who would have ever thought it would now be illegal to sell alcohol or cigarettes. In terms of cigarettes although I am not a smoker myself, I believe this was quite a harsh implementation, as unfortunately people are addicted to smoking and helps them cope through stressful situations. So banning this once they run out of smokes, they get irritated and moody, which is not good for a home situation. Yes, it is good not to smoke and is better for your health but that is something you have to decide on your own, you cannot force someone to make that decision by taking it away, you only making it worse.
melandre said:
on Tuesday 21-Apr-20 09:56 AM
I am impartial when it comes to the ban on alcohol and cigarettes. The positive side of this is that the amount of trauma care patients in hospitals have decreased, there is less domestic abuse and battery, and the consumption of the two products does lower our immune system to some extent leaving us more susceptible to contracting the virus. However the negative side is that it has now contributed to illegal sales of the aforementioned and also leaves those that are addicted to either in a state of complete anxiety. I guess everything has its pros and its cons.
Natasha said:
on Tuesday 21-Apr-20 09:39 AM
Well i dont think they though everything through before they banned cigarettes and alcohol because now they banned it people are sitting home cant go anywhere cant relieve stress husband and wife in each others face the whole time the kids are up and down and they cant even smoke a cigarette or drink wine to relax a bit. There is a lot of people that are under so much pressure and now they take away the things that makes them relax.
People are going to start breaking in and killing people for alcohol., Just the other day one of my Boyfriends friends that was a manager at a pub that lived on the property was shot dead because they wanted to get booze, Things are you going to get worse if the lockdown continues. They are going to start robbing people at shops stealing their handbags even their food. Nanny state defnitley
patrick said:
on Tuesday 21-Apr-20 09:35 AM
We have seen in the first week of the lock down how people in certain parts of the country openly defied t Minister Cele and even used insult words against him at a popular drinking place. Am sure the idea is not to over protect but enforce compliance. On hind sight, the ban helped a lot and decreased crime statistics.
Nicolle said:
on Tuesday 21-Apr-20 09:32 AM
I think that the ban on alcohol and cigarettes as well as unnecessary petty regulations such as prohibition on dog walking are counterproductive because it all undermines the goodwill of South Africans towards the efforts of combating Covid-19.
Danielle said:
on Tuesday 21-Apr-20 09:15 AM
I think it was necessary to ban alcohol and cigarettes. People need to stop worrying about the less important things and pay attention to the things that really matter and keep us going like our food and water.
Kendall said:
on Tuesday 21-Apr-20 08:52 AM
Although it is not ideal, I do agree with the banning of the sale of alcohol as the consumption of it encourages people to act more recklessly and ignore the lockdown regulations more than what they already have! This is specifically the case in the townships. It encourages people to engage in social gatherings and not observe social distancing rules. I do however not understand the banning of cigarettes though as I do not think allowing people to smoke will have an impact on the spreading or curbing of the virus. The downside of all of this is that people are now turning to accessing these goods on the black market. I even saw a post on one of the Facebook community groups that I belong to of someone asking where they can buy cigarettes and numerous people responded and offered to sell them some!
Nikita said:
on Tuesday 21-Apr-20 08:31 AM
We have to remember that COVID19 is a respiratory disease. So I agree with the banning of the cigarettes. Hopefully this can encourage some of the smokers to stop smoking. Alcohol was also a wise decision to ban because it encourages socializing which is what we are trying to prevent. It is already difficult enough for the law enforcement to control people in locations because of the small spaces they are living in so imagine how much harder it would be if people had nothing to do everyday but drink themselves silly.
Thabitha said:
on Tuesday 21-Apr-20 08:23 AM
In South Africa people are more worried and complaining about alcohol and cigarettes than saving lives. I feel for those who are not home with their families or those who are working during the lock down than those who brakes the lock down rules just to do wrong things
Nicolene said:
on Tuesday 21-Apr-20 07:57 AM
South Africa is definitely a nanny state and I think it was necessary to ban alcohol and cigarettes as Covid-19 is a respiratory disease, but there's still a lot of people selling alcohol and cigarettes so it's easy to get it if you want it, it's just extremely expensive. I think it is ridiculous to close shops that actually is essential e.g. baby clothing? How is this not an essential? I even ordered baby clothing from an online shop, but due to the lock-down it will only be delivered after the lock-down.
Angelique said:
on Tuesday 21-Apr-20 07:30 AM
So democratic right? We are currently all children being told what to do and what not to do. It mainly affects the poor who couldnt go and stock up while the wealthy just bought all the stock in the world. I think they forget cigarettes, sugar, alcohol all become an addiction and when that drug is not there what happens? People loot stores like they have been, people go crazy and do other things.Why not rather somehow control it rather than ban it completely? Can you just imagine how much those industries are losing?
Too much power.
sandra said:
on Tuesday 21-Apr-20 07:20 AM
The official unemployment figure is 36 percent. If persons who are economically active and unemployed, but not actively seeking employment are included, the figure goes up to 60 percent.Nigeria is projected to overtake South Africa as Africa’s largest economy by 2025
Michelle Smillie said:
on Tuesday 21-Apr-20 07:18 AM
I can't say whether South Africa is a nanny state, or even a dictatorship as I've seen some others refer to it. But what I can say is that it seems there are some more reasons behind the government's ban on alcohol.
I've read a post by a nurse at Chris Hani Baragwanath Hospital who said that the ban is in place to reduce the amount of trauma incidents because of drunk people at the hospitals. At their hospital, at month-end, their ICU is easily filled with trauma patients from incidents such as car accidents and domestic violence, the majority of it caused by drunk people. Her viewpoint is that the ban allows hospitals' beds to remain open to help people with CoVid-19.
I have also read of a few women who claim that the ban makes no difference on domestic violence, but also read an article of a little boy who was beaten to death by his drunk father during the lockdown. I am sure I won't be the only person who will blame the government if they did not do what they could to save the lives of the children in the country.
Of course, my opinion might be clouded as neither I nor my husband drink or smoke, and the ban makes no difference to our usual lives. But I do think that the President thought this through well before making the decision to extend the ban.
Jessica said:
on Tuesday 21-Apr-20 06:51 AM
Well I guess it is a nanny state. I believe that they have taken this more seriously than most other countries would. I was telling a few of my friends from America and England about our restrictions and they couldn't believe it. Like the ban of selling cigarettes' and alcohol. A few weeks ago we looked at the news and in England 9 domestic deaths have also accrued. Maybe they should of also band the alcohol there.
david said:
on Tuesday 21-Apr-20 06:11 AM
there is more to the ban than the government simply being killjoys, schooled in the KGB's dark arts of party stopping. the reality is that alcohol weakens, substantially, the body's immune system. smoking 'is not beneficial' the lungs. this is a respiratory type disease. you need people's immune systems to be strong, and their lungs in good shape, for the lockdown etc to be of maximum effect and to save as many lives as possible. since a lockdown is the most extreme measure a government can take (effectively cutting their own throats with regards to taxes etc), it makes sense that if they are going to go that route, that they then take it to the nth degree to maximise benefits.
Mathilda said:
on Tuesday 21-Apr-20 12:11 AM
I agree that currently South Africa is a nanny state , but I also think the strick measures that has been put in place was necessary.
But now being in lockdown for a month there are some regulations that has to be relaxed.
People are really struggling, especially the people that live from paycheck to paycheck.
Some of the regulations are damaging to our economy
Sujata said:
on Monday 20-Apr-20 09:59 PM
To some extent a nanny state policy works for the current phase but its long term effects are not to be forgotten as people grow relentless with overbearing policies and restrictions. I do believe a ban on alcohol consumption is for the betterment of the population to curb domestic violence and irrational behaviour with the ban on cigarettes certainly fitting the bill of a nanny policy but in the long run these are healthy policies if anything. One should not forget that SA's society is quick to react to change or any policy implemented by government be it strikes or the destruction of property; bearing this in mind the government chose the nanny root to constructively control a population that otherwise cannot be controlled.
Megan said:
on Monday 20-Apr-20 07:52 PM
I agree this is a nanny state. Democracy currently doesn't exist in South Africa whether the government thinks so or not. Alcohol has been taken away, yes but is it not for the better in the current situation, e.g SA GBV statistics?
Zandelee said:
on Monday 20-Apr-20 07:42 PM
In my view the ban on the sale of alcohol during the lockdown is justifiable, with South Africa ranking among some of the worst in the world for its levels of alcohol consumption. During a period of lockdown a large portion of the south african society will be confined in a small space together for long periods at a time, which will lead to frustration. If you add alcohol to this scenario it will almost certainly have a bad outcome not to mention how children will be affected. The ban on the sale of cigarettes is not as justifiable as the ban on alcohol. The ban on cigarettes will merely reduce the number of people at supermarkets.
I do believe that South Africa requires a nanny state up to a certain degree, however the nanny effect on the labour sector of the country is detrimental to our economy.
Courtney said:
on Monday 20-Apr-20 02:52 PM
I agree on the sugar drug! Anything is bad for you when you abuse the intake. Taking cigarettes away with alcohol will also cause drama! Either way. I just wish everything can go back to normal.
Lucretia said:
on Monday 20-Apr-20 12:58 PM
My thinking is that Government actually only wanted to clamp down on alcohol because unfortunately south africa has a drinking problem and to clamp down on that is to try and stop unnecessary socialising which they are trying to stop. To ban smoking is just to make it look fare, which i think is stupid because no one has ever going out and disobeyed the law when under the influence of a cigarette. I am just grateful i am not a drinker or smoker and need a fix because i can imagine this is going to spark illegal production of such goods from ones own kitchen which could be more hazardous to ones health. Have heard on the radio how many people are trying to brew their own alcohol which could possibly toxic.
Clare Tissen said:
on Monday 20-Apr-20 11:38 AM
Not that the Banding of Alcohol and cigarettes effect me as i don't do much Alcohol and i don't smoke it is worrying for the people that do. I mean i will not live if my mother did not have a smoke she would kill me hahaha. People also quick to jump at people that smoke or Drink but some do it to relieve themselves from Stress rather smoke then hit your kids, wife or Husbands, till they are black and blue.. I must say that my stress release is dancing around my house and playing very very loud music. other people are different, How boring would life be if we where all the same.
fikile said:
on Monday 20-Apr-20 11:01 AM
I don't think the lock down will end any time soon and most people are worried about their jobs and that is really scary,the most people that go to CCMA are the domestic workers who are worried that after the whole lock down will they still have jobs. The lock down has shaken the world as a total and has made a lot of things not to make sense, the more the lock down continues the more worried people get about their jobs and everything.
Karien said:
on Monday 20-Apr-20 10:55 AM
I think the ban on the sale of cigarettes and alcohol during the lockdown period has increased illegal criminal activity related to these products. I read that some of these products are now being sold for up to five times its usual price.
Another ridiculous regulation is the sale of clothing, especially children's clothes, during this time. The sale of baby and toddler products are now permitted, but what about older children? It's getting colder by the day and most children need winter clothing, because surely the previous year's clothes will be too small.
I think that the sale of any item online should be permitted, but the warehouses where these products are packaged and shipped from must adhere to strict hygiene protocols.
Johannesburg based attorney specializing in personal injury matters including Road Accident Fund claims and medical negligence matters. My interests include golf, reading and the internet and the way it is constantly developing. I have a passion for life and a desire for less stress!
